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We finally watched, a few days ago. Clearly I wasn't overwhelmed by squee, because it took me a few days to post.
I don't want to rain on anybody's squee, so if you thoroughly enjoyed The Ark of Truth, you might want to go elsewhere. I didn't hate it, but I was a bit disappointed. I guess I expected too much, having waited so long. But what can you get when you condense an entire season's arc into 142 minutes?
The answer: lots of explosions, Cam Mitchell being beaten to a pulp, too many enemies, and not enough character development. The same problems affected Farscape's Peacekeeper Wars, though a little less--they had more hours! Clearly, we needed a mini-series! Um, maybe not.
Here's my major problem: the whole movie hinged on an ethical dilemma that got little more than lip service. Is it right to use coercion to force people to believe the truth? (Who decides? How do we know what truth is?) Daniel does seem deeply troubled by the idea, but even he never really seriously debates it. They simply don't have time. The dilemma is never a real dilemma; what ought to be a central conflict simply doesn't emerge as a conflict at all. We know from the start that they're going to use the Ark. I'd have been shocked (and possibly very pleased!) if they didn't. This problem is symptomatic of my difficulties with later SG-1 and most of SGA: moral dilemmas don't matter. The writers generally nod to them (but occasionally ignore them), but we rarely see a character truly struggle with them as we did in earlier SG-1 (is it wrong to poison all the Goa'uld at the summit, killing their hosts but saving future victims? Can we force an entire race, the Gadmeer, to go or remain extinct, to save a small group of humans?), or show regrets. Lately, they regret when choices aren't effective; they rarely regret doing wrong. (Yes, there are exceptions, for which I am grateful.)
On a much more nit-picky note, I am tired of watching what appears to be the same small patch of woods serve as New Athos, New New Athos, new Atlantea, planet in another galaxy, etc. I suppose I don't have a right to complain, because I remain a fan of Doctor Who and Blake's 7; Paul Darrow swears they really were once on location running around a bend in the quarry when they ran headlong into a DW team running the other way. I'm now waiting for the Torchwood crew to smack into a Doctor Who crew (ow!).
I must also complain that SG-1 should have had ground-penetrating radar that would show the location of the underground chamber (as should previous generations of seekers!). I could handle it if they offered shielding as an excuse: "But the scans were identical to the surrounding areas!" I'm not impressed with the writers' understanding of the tools available to an extraordinarily well-funded (and desperate) archaeologist. I'm also not impressed with how obvious it was once Daniel had his "vision" of Merlin, after we heard how eons' worth of people on both sides had sought the Ark. Take out a few explosions, guys, and put something remotely convincing on the ground there!
Do we need a crazy IOA operative carrying out a crazy IOA directive? I for one did not. Nor did I need to see Replicators yet again. I felt like I'd seen it all before, although non-human-form Replicators taking over a human being added a new level of horror. I felt sympathy for the poor IOA idiot for a little bit, but...it passed.
Do we need to see Cam beaten to a pulp again? Yes, I know Ben Browder singled that out in at least one interview (no, I don't have a link handy; sorry) as Cam's major function. I really could have done with a lot less of it, though. I got the idea pretty early in the fight. I wanted to see something new from Cam, some development. I suppose I've been waiting for that for most of his time on the show, sadly. It's not Ben Browder's fault. They never quite gave the character the depth he needed.
It would have been nice to see Sam doing something new, too, but at least she didn't get beaten up, making her the only one who didn't. Go Sam! They didn't give her a whole lot of initiative, though! Come on! She's going to command Atlantis! Let's see some leadership here!
I like Landry. This seems to put me in the minority. I didn't feel like he really did anything in this movie, though! Letting the Prior through to Earth just seemed dumb. We know the inhibitor that stops Priors' powers doesn't work forever. At least they took his staff away. And I did get to admire Landry's eyebrows yet again.
I did like some elements of the movie!
Tomin was the surprise highlight of the movie for me. Tomin actually has ethical struggles and character development, though his reaction to the Prior's death is rather underwritten. His acceptance of guilt, and his reluctant return to his own galaxy without his wife, whom he still loves, to try to clean up the mess, helped redeem the movie for me. I also like his assertion that the Book of Origin has some good in it. Now there's something interesting!
Teal'c shares what he has learned from his own journey with Tomin. Was his speech to Tomin not the longest speech Teal'c has ever given? He has been waiting years to share his burden. Jack and Sam wouldn't quite understand, and he can't say these things to Daniel (part of it amounts to "you forgive me to make yourself feel better", which may be true, but not something one says to the person who has graciously forgiven you). Teal'c doesn't go easy on Tomin, and his anger at Tomin surely reflects some lingering anger at himself. They both seem the better for the talk, though.
Then, of course, we get Teal'c the Persevering, who will doubtless be a figure of Jaffa legend for centuries to come, as he should be.
I liked the final scene between Cam and Sam (that was a friendly kiss such as she might have given Teal'c or Daniel, and you'll never convince me otherwise!). I knew the moment we saw Cam in the infirmary that she'd bring macaroons.
It was nice to get a little closure on Morgan, though I'm curious about whether she overcame Adria or they are simply locked in eternal combat as Anubis and Oma were (last we knew). I was glad to see Daniel's visions weren't really "visions," as that would be a little too supernatural and convenient (whereas I'm happy to accept that an interfering Ancient continues to be an interfering ancient).
Daniel hasn't finished his journey. He gives up; haven't we been expecting this for years? As he bounced back from trauma after trauma, death after death (is it![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
aurora_novarum who says he has a Weeble gene?), I have to admit I finally began to disengage from the character. It wasn't so much the increasing snark (which I could mostly understand) or even his increasing willingness to use violent and fatal means. Daniel seemed to have stopped developing. That's a problem in long-running shows, but in life, and in good fiction, one always has more to do, further to go. People who stop growing aren't interesting. Daniel became interesting again in the movie. Though I wish more than lip service had been paid to the problem of using the Ark, I liked the depth of concern that Daniel showed, even as he used it.
Most of all, I enjoyed seeing the team again, especially with each other, all together and in various combinations. I was happy to see them going off again at the end. There are other adventures to be had. And I may write some of them, if I ever get time again.
I don't want to rain on anybody's squee, so if you thoroughly enjoyed The Ark of Truth, you might want to go elsewhere. I didn't hate it, but I was a bit disappointed. I guess I expected too much, having waited so long. But what can you get when you condense an entire season's arc into 142 minutes?
The answer: lots of explosions, Cam Mitchell being beaten to a pulp, too many enemies, and not enough character development. The same problems affected Farscape's Peacekeeper Wars, though a little less--they had more hours! Clearly, we needed a mini-series! Um, maybe not.
Here's my major problem: the whole movie hinged on an ethical dilemma that got little more than lip service. Is it right to use coercion to force people to believe the truth? (Who decides? How do we know what truth is?) Daniel does seem deeply troubled by the idea, but even he never really seriously debates it. They simply don't have time. The dilemma is never a real dilemma; what ought to be a central conflict simply doesn't emerge as a conflict at all. We know from the start that they're going to use the Ark. I'd have been shocked (and possibly very pleased!) if they didn't. This problem is symptomatic of my difficulties with later SG-1 and most of SGA: moral dilemmas don't matter. The writers generally nod to them (but occasionally ignore them), but we rarely see a character truly struggle with them as we did in earlier SG-1 (is it wrong to poison all the Goa'uld at the summit, killing their hosts but saving future victims? Can we force an entire race, the Gadmeer, to go or remain extinct, to save a small group of humans?), or show regrets. Lately, they regret when choices aren't effective; they rarely regret doing wrong. (Yes, there are exceptions, for which I am grateful.)
On a much more nit-picky note, I am tired of watching what appears to be the same small patch of woods serve as New Athos, New New Athos, new Atlantea, planet in another galaxy, etc. I suppose I don't have a right to complain, because I remain a fan of Doctor Who and Blake's 7; Paul Darrow swears they really were once on location running around a bend in the quarry when they ran headlong into a DW team running the other way. I'm now waiting for the Torchwood crew to smack into a Doctor Who crew (ow!).
I must also complain that SG-1 should have had ground-penetrating radar that would show the location of the underground chamber (as should previous generations of seekers!). I could handle it if they offered shielding as an excuse: "But the scans were identical to the surrounding areas!" I'm not impressed with the writers' understanding of the tools available to an extraordinarily well-funded (and desperate) archaeologist. I'm also not impressed with how obvious it was once Daniel had his "vision" of Merlin, after we heard how eons' worth of people on both sides had sought the Ark. Take out a few explosions, guys, and put something remotely convincing on the ground there!
Do we need a crazy IOA operative carrying out a crazy IOA directive? I for one did not. Nor did I need to see Replicators yet again. I felt like I'd seen it all before, although non-human-form Replicators taking over a human being added a new level of horror. I felt sympathy for the poor IOA idiot for a little bit, but...it passed.
Do we need to see Cam beaten to a pulp again? Yes, I know Ben Browder singled that out in at least one interview (no, I don't have a link handy; sorry) as Cam's major function. I really could have done with a lot less of it, though. I got the idea pretty early in the fight. I wanted to see something new from Cam, some development. I suppose I've been waiting for that for most of his time on the show, sadly. It's not Ben Browder's fault. They never quite gave the character the depth he needed.
It would have been nice to see Sam doing something new, too, but at least she didn't get beaten up, making her the only one who didn't. Go Sam! They didn't give her a whole lot of initiative, though! Come on! She's going to command Atlantis! Let's see some leadership here!
I like Landry. This seems to put me in the minority. I didn't feel like he really did anything in this movie, though! Letting the Prior through to Earth just seemed dumb. We know the inhibitor that stops Priors' powers doesn't work forever. At least they took his staff away. And I did get to admire Landry's eyebrows yet again.
I did like some elements of the movie!
Tomin was the surprise highlight of the movie for me. Tomin actually has ethical struggles and character development, though his reaction to the Prior's death is rather underwritten. His acceptance of guilt, and his reluctant return to his own galaxy without his wife, whom he still loves, to try to clean up the mess, helped redeem the movie for me. I also like his assertion that the Book of Origin has some good in it. Now there's something interesting!
Teal'c shares what he has learned from his own journey with Tomin. Was his speech to Tomin not the longest speech Teal'c has ever given? He has been waiting years to share his burden. Jack and Sam wouldn't quite understand, and he can't say these things to Daniel (part of it amounts to "you forgive me to make yourself feel better", which may be true, but not something one says to the person who has graciously forgiven you). Teal'c doesn't go easy on Tomin, and his anger at Tomin surely reflects some lingering anger at himself. They both seem the better for the talk, though.
Then, of course, we get Teal'c the Persevering, who will doubtless be a figure of Jaffa legend for centuries to come, as he should be.
I liked the final scene between Cam and Sam (that was a friendly kiss such as she might have given Teal'c or Daniel, and you'll never convince me otherwise!). I knew the moment we saw Cam in the infirmary that she'd bring macaroons.
It was nice to get a little closure on Morgan, though I'm curious about whether she overcame Adria or they are simply locked in eternal combat as Anubis and Oma were (last we knew). I was glad to see Daniel's visions weren't really "visions," as that would be a little too supernatural and convenient (whereas I'm happy to accept that an interfering Ancient continues to be an interfering ancient).
Daniel hasn't finished his journey. He gives up; haven't we been expecting this for years? As he bounced back from trauma after trauma, death after death (is it
aurora_novarum who says he has a Weeble gene?), I have to admit I finally began to disengage from the character. It wasn't so much the increasing snark (which I could mostly understand) or even his increasing willingness to use violent and fatal means. Daniel seemed to have stopped developing. That's a problem in long-running shows, but in life, and in good fiction, one always has more to do, further to go. People who stop growing aren't interesting. Daniel became interesting again in the movie. Though I wish more than lip service had been paid to the problem of using the Ark, I liked the depth of concern that Daniel showed, even as he used it. Most of all, I enjoyed seeing the team again, especially with each other, all together and in various combinations. I was happy to see them going off again at the end. There are other adventures to be had. And I may write some of them, if I ever get time again.
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Joking aside, I saw that as "just friends" who are happy they are alive. My reaction to the dvd was much like yours--I don't want to take away from the fun of those who loved it, but it didn't do all that much for me, and I am hoping, so much, that I will like Continuum much better. I still want it to do well, though, because I'd like more SG dvd movies.
Melissa M.
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I loved the Sam and Cameron interactions. And the team looks and moments with each other. And Teal'c so owned this movie. And I loved the development of Tomin (considering I found him dull in Crusade, my love for him is a complete 180).
And I loved the moments with Morgan. And these moments will let me enjoy it and watch it again. It was an enjoyable movie.
But...if they want to
milk this franchisecontinue with more movies, they'd better write tighter storylines. I think RCC being writer and director and producer was a bit too much carte blanche. The plot holes and inconsistencies ran rampant.I did read a review on some kind of "disney" website that I thought was an excellent, if a bit too biting for my taste notation of the movie and its faults.
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Yes. One person having all the power tends to ruin a script (see Star Wars: Return of the Jedi).
I enjoyed it for the most part, but some bits made me cringe. Or whine.
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Overall, I am satisfied with the movie. It was WAY too fast, skipped over some important points for the sake of brevity (the moral implications, Daniel's "giving up", etc.), but it does tie up the Ori storyline. More importantly, it paves the way for some new adventures. Bring on Continuum!
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Yes! Every time we cut back to the Adventures of Sam and Cam I got frustrated.
I'm game for new adventures, though!
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For me, Teal'c and Tomin were the best parts, especially Tomin and I'm only sorry he didn't take Vala with him. They have such chemistry together...and she doesn't with Daniel jmho.
I'm not as eager to see the next one as I don't like the way they treat time travel stories and that plot line is wearing pretty thin for me. Also, I see it as an excuse to promote the old S/J ship which I've always believed they would do at the end when they thought they could get away with it. Any slash leanings aside, I just never saw them together. All those male writers are just the worst at doing romance in any form and I'll be sorry if we're subjected to it. :oP
However, I do miss the team, the 'real' team. *sigh*
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Hope springs eternal! I should really tie it down, though, because it's when hope is springing that I end up disappointed.
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BBCA ran past the hour, and we'd changed TiVos and we didn't have the settings right to tape until two minutes after the hour, so we didn't get quite the very end of "Something Borrowed." So I ran to my computer and set it searching for "Best of Jack and Ianto" on YouTube, because some clever people are doing clips from most episodes with those titles, and Husband was saying, "It's late, you can do this tomorrow"...but it was all worthwhile when we got to that closing line: "That's what I love about Torchwood. By day, chasing the alien scum of the universe. Come midnight, you're the wedding fairy." The TiVo had cut off right before that.
Thank you, YouTube!
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Ianto's getting quite a bit of development this season, and I'm really liking it. From what I'd heard, originally his character was under consideration to be killed in the first season, but they liked the actor enough to keep him. I'm really glad they did.
I'm curious to see where the Jack/Ianto thing leads. I'm almost getting over my initial freakout that we're getting canon slash in a non-gay oriented show, and sci fi nonetheless. I'm trying to decide how the connections "really" are -- Jack and Ianto are very obviously having a physical relationship [fans self], but then there's still Gwen mooning over Jack and Jack seeming to return at least some of that feeling.
I know with Jack I shouldn't get too worked up over him being with people of both genders, even at the same time, but I get the feeling Ianto has really fallen for him, and is trying to keep his feelings to himself because he knows how Jack is and probably thinks Jack's in it for the fun and doesn't want anything more serious. If Jack breaks Ianto's heart, I'll have to kick his 51st Century ass. ;)
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I've always been a gen girl in the fandoms where I'm most active (I love some couples, but I don't write in those fandoms), and I'm a little freaked myself: I'm considering writing slash. (Nothing explicit. I don't do explicit.)
I know with Jack I shouldn't get too worked up over him being with people of both genders, even at the same time, but I get the feeling Ianto has really fallen for him, and is trying to keep his feelings to himself because he knows how Jack is and probably thinks Jack's in it for the fun and doesn't want anything more serious.
I'm afraid so; that's what I got out of his telling Martha, "We dabble."
If Jack breaks Ianto's heart, I'll have to kick his 51st Century ass. ;)
You do that! I'll help!
I'm eager to see how that line in your icon arises. I have a feeling I'll be hearing that line from my husband a lot after we see whatever episode that's in. We have lots of family here, so we may not even get to watch Saturday's BBCA episode (whatever comes after "Something Borrowed"; I'm trying to avoid spoilers) until mid-week next week!
I suppose I should tear myself away from the computer and return to said family now....
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I don't think I could write real slash either, though I certainly have nothing against reading it. ;) That's one reason my writing is the weird parody it is -- I can poke fun at all sides while enjoying all sides too.
Don't worry too much about delayed viewing of the episode after Something Borrowed. It had some good moments and was kinda creepy, but it was definitely not a fave. The two after that though? Oh my, yes. ;)
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You know what really bugged me (pardon the RepliPun) about Cam getting the crap beat out of him? There was no real reason for it other than a shot at some cool f/x.
The RepliZombie (and yes, that'll be in the Breadbox Edition *g*) attacked Cam because he was a threat... but the first thing it did was to take Cam's weapon away and toss it aside to physically attack him. WTF? Why not just shoot him, why would it want to take the more difficult route of attacking him mano a mano
bug?Why in the hell would the Replicators even want to create a RepliZombie in the first place? There's no real strategic advantage, because the bugs could kill you just as dead as a RepliZombie in the long run. I think it was a cheap plot device so the "bad guy" got punished, and all this particular bad guy needed was a mustache to twirl, perhaps while tying a woman to some railroad tracks. I was reminded of Burke from Aliens, who tried to fuck over the other humans for a profit by bringing home an alien, but ended up getting his just desserts by getting the end he'd intended for others. Sorry Bridge, but James Cameron did it way better.
I think someone in the writer's room came up with the "RepliZombie turns into a RepliSkeleton" idea, the f/x guys creamed their jeans, and a stupid plot device was born.
There were some good moments, but not nearly enough. So many people seem to be using "It was just like another episode!" as praise, but to me that was a major problem. The writers have to expand their horizon a bit if they want people to shell out money to buy the DVDs. Why should I pay about half what a full season would cost, for one long episode? The scripts have got to improve, but I've been saying that for years.
I never want to see the Replicators again, and they totally did not belong in this movie. We've been there, done that, blew up the damn things too many times to count (and I loved all the P-90s firing and detroying them, yet not leaving bullet holes in the walls). I'd like them to be buried in a deep, dark hole, along with Vala's shiny "Hey, shoot me in the head, along with the rest of my team!" barrettes. ;)
And yes, the Muse is just getting warmed up. ;)
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I'm sick of Replicators and hope we're done with them on SGA--wait, there's that darned hope again.
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Even Teal'c, with all his years as First Prime (he probably could have crushed most of our military guys like bugs) had to learn to adapt to the way the team works, so why should Vala be such an exception? Even though Daniel's not military and often goes outside that box, he still ultimately has to follow the basic rules, because they're there for his safety as well as that of his team.
Speaking of team, someone needs to inform the writers they don't have to do an "A story" and "B story" in a movie, which invariably separates the team. Though I imagine this is partly because they're looking beyond DVD sales to when it will show on tv.
The Muse is already coming up with this whole saga for the random military guy we saw more than once shooting at the Replicators. He had "red shirt" practically tattooed on his butt, and he didn't die, so there's got to be something to that, right? Perhaps he's just been around Daniel enough that he's caught the "can't die" bug?
I don't have high hopes for Continuum, unfortunately. Jack + Temporal Wankfest = Sam-N-Sir Wuv Fest, with a probable reset button at the end. I think I want time travel plots tossed into the same pit with Replicators and Vala's shiny barrettes.
The next movie will be the real make and break time for me, though I know MGM is really looking at Continuum as proof they can maintain the franchise via DVD. I think they're banking on RDA's appearance, but if they're putting all their eggs into that basket and not writing a decent plot, it won't matter.
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Yes!
I am a bit worried about Continuum. I love Jack. I love Sam. I hate Jack/Sam.
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Same here. And I think TPTB have painted themselves into a corner with all the teasing going nowhere, especially if they want to continue using either or both characters in the Stargate-verse.
Many of those who want to see it want absolute, positive proof, but said proof means both characters can't be in the same chain of command, and at the moment, they are. It also sort of taints them, IMO, even if nothing canon actually happened until after Jack retired. It would bring suspicion on Sam most all, because in the real world if this happened, many would assume she was "doing the boss" all this time to advance her career.
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I agree the Cam whumping was over the top along with the replicator battle. How many more of these battles must the writers subject us to? Sheesh. We also knew Merrick was a dick from the get go.
Yes, there were plotholes, but I still enjoyed it.
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Sorry - the last one posted oddly. Deleted it. This is a repost ...
p.s. Gareth Thomas told me that story about bumping into Dr Who in Betchworth Chalk Pit too. I am sure its a myth they created themselves. They **did** film in similar places and follow each other round however as the officially recognised location specialist for B7 at the moment (and having got the details about filming Dr Who and cross checked yeah I know I am sad but I am a librarian in real life) its not possible it could have happened. Sorry.
p.p.s. Yay to Beowulf too. I am staying with BF this weekend and we might get to Sutton Hoo.
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Re: Sorry - the last one posted oddly. Deleted it. This is a repost ...
I did have my doubts about that B7 story; it's just too good to be true. It's still fun.
Yes! Go to Sutton Hoo if you can! I loved it! I wish my husband could have gone, but I figure some day I'll drag him along.
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Was very irritated at the cardboard IOA guy. Found the return of the Replicators underwhelming. There was a reason for the Replicator to take him over, though- remember the first thing that Cam does is shoot him- and the bullets go through the guy's body and don't have enough oomph left to destroy the Replicator. Once he's been used as a human shield though, and Cam's weapon is gone, there's nothing left for him to do.
However, worse than that- they totally screwed up the choreography of the fight scenes, and I do mean royally. See, I could have bought it if the Replicator used superstrength but moved awkwardly while Cam used his Sodan martial arts moves. But they gave the Replicator martial arts-type moves (which we have to assume were from the IOA guy's memory). And he gets an armlock on Cam at least twice, very early in the fight. Big problem. Cam should have had two dislocated elbows and that was it for him at that point. And it goes downhill from there. Trust me, this was really painful to watch. If they were going to have the Replicator know martial arts, than Cam needed to have blocked or evaded every hold- the first one he misses ends the fight. (Getting punched is a bit easier to fanwank that he rolls with it.)
And it's pretty stupid- he's clearly invaded the IOA guy's mind, so why didn't he already know where the destruct code was? And why keep Cam alive so long? (This actually reminds me a bit of the final fight in Serenity for reasons I won't go into because I can't recall if you've seen it- but Serenity does it a heck of a lot better.)
Of course far better would have been no Replicators. A technical problem involving the Ark that Sam had to solve, before Daniel could turn it on. Cam could've been beaten up by Ori soldiers. (I'd have liked a Cam and Tomin teaming up to fight Ori soldiers scene much better.)
Honestly, while they were stealing ideas from better movies, why not have stolen some of the structure of Raiders as well? The wild chase thing would have worked reasonably decently for this.
Gah. I must admit that I generally like time travel as a theme, but my expectations for Continuum, made with this writing team? Are not high. (I take it Mallozi never responded to the critique of Unending that I posted in his blog?)
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Yes! No stupid Replicators! I've had it with Replicators, and I don't want to see them again on SGA either.
I haven't seen any response from Mallozzi; I must have missed your post! I haven't been reading the comments on his blog, though I do still read his blog (generally). Do you remember which day you posted? I'd like to read your comments.
I think I have relieved myself of any expectations for Continuum, except for a slightly sick feeling that this is all going to go badly. It's probably good to go in that way.
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Um- I posted a comment to your LJ post (probably the one complaining about the Atlantis ep with Sheppard getting stuck in the future) when I submitted the critique on Mallozi's blog. That was after we'd discussed why you didn't care about the ep- because it's set up to be John's story, and then he doesn't get to do anything. It was a while back.
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I checked each day's comments from March 8 through March 14 and couldn't find you--unless you used something other than "redbyrd," to post, in which case I just wasted ten minutes of my life.
Yes, clearly I have too much time on my hands. I should get back to my Old Norse, catch up with Thor and his buddies (the other Thor).
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Yeah, that's probably pretty lame, but you're right: if they have intergalactic drive, I think the whole last two seasons fall apart.
I enjoyed "Unending" when it aired because my expectations were so terribly low. I try to make a point never to look back at it, because even a glance backwards makes it seem worse.
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It's well established early on that the villain is a very good martial artist, way better than Mal. And yet, the final fight drags on and on- when clearly he could have just killed Mal and it would have been over. But they *also* established that the villain doesn't just want to win. He wants his victims to *acknowledge that he's right*. It's a subtle and quite effective piece of characterization, and is a *brilliant* explanation for why Mal lived long enough to turn the tables and win the fight.